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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  February 4, 2014 7:00pm-8:01pm PST

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guns anyway before anyone asks him anything. because apparently that's what it's like now to be in the inner circle of governor chris crist tier. amazing. thanks for being with us tonight. have a great night. bill nye the science guy will join me tonight for a victory lap after his brilliant performance just a few minutes ago in a debate on evolution versus creationism. but first, what did he know and when did he know it? chris christie is not so sure anymore about what he knew and exactly when he knew it. did i authorize it? did i know about it, did i approve it? the answer is unequivocally no. >> the unequivocal statement. >> governor christie asserts again that he knew nothing. >> that he didn't know anything about the bridge closure.
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>> when did i first know about the lane closures? i read it in t"the wall street journa journal". >> he said on a local radio show -- >> answering questions on camera -- >> i'm curious about what happened here. >> let's walk through what we know now. >> more questions about the ongoing investigations. >> he's facing new accusations from a former ally. >> who's this wildstein guy! >> the lawyer write, quote, evidence exist tying mr. christie to having knowledge of a lane closure. >> a plea player is feeding the fifth. >> the third chris christie official pleading the fifth. >> i terminated her employment because she lied to me. >> the question becomes why did his staff feel like they had to lie to him? >> it is heartbreaking to me that i wasn't told the truth. >> the people of ft. lee, the people of new jersey, they want to know the facts. responses to subpoenas are
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clowely coming into the special committee of the new jersey legislature investigating the christie administration's order to close access lanes to the george washington bridge last year. bill baroi, the former port authority deputy executive director and three other port authority officials have complied with subpoena requests for documents. and after a weekend when chris christie's story came under intense pressure from the claim by david wildstein's lawyer that he had evidence that would contradict some of what christie has said, the governor adjusted his story last night to more closely conform to wildstein's claims. this is the way governor christie used to talk about when he first learned about the traffic problems. >> i knew nothing about this until it started to be reported in the papers about the closure. but even then, i was told this was a traffic study. senator baroni testified it was
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a traffic study. >> but on friday, david wildstein's lawyer revealed, quote, it has also come to light that a person within the christie administration communicated the christie administration's order that certain lanes of the george washington bridge were to be closed and evidence exists as well tying mr. christie to having knowledge of lane closures. team christie decided to attack the messenger, including actually attacking david wildstein's performance as a high school student. and david wildstein's past, people and newspaper accounts have described him as tumultuous. he was publicly accused by his high school social studies teacher of deceptive behavior. that attack on wildstein, the juvenile, high school attack on wildstein is clearly the most desperate moment yet in team christie's attempt to save chris christie's political career and presidential ambition. after the weekend of desperate
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lashing out at david wildstein last night, chris christie said this -- >> if prior to that -- i know prior to that there were press accounts about traffic issues up there. and if someone, you know, if i read that or someone said something to me about traffic issues up there, it wouldn't have been meaningful to me because i didn't know there was any problem up there. i didn't know we had actually closed lanes up there before that. when this first became an issue for me, because let's face it, there's traffic every day at the george washington bridge, at the lincoln tunnel, at the holland tunnel. i hear those reports on the radio. we all hear about them. that's not something that rises to the gubernatorial level. twhen first became clear to me that this was a potential issue was when the foye e-mail was put out. now, like i said, there were press accounts before. whether i read any of those -- if i did or heard anything from anybody about traffic, it would
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not have been meaningful to me. >> joining me now is msnbc contributor joy reid and new jersey state senate leader loretta weinberg who is co-chair of the special investigative committee. senator, chris christie is now saying that the only thing that matters is his statement that he did not know anything about the lane closures before they happened. and he doesn't want anyone to question of exactly when did he first hear about the lane closures, because the only thing that matters is that he didn't know about it beforehand, had nothing to do with it beforehand. is he right? is that the only thing that matters? and is that the only thing of interest to you on the committee about chris christie's awareness of this issue? >> no. there. >> es a lot of things that are of interest to me and hopefully to the entire committee. first of all, let me tell you what i know. i made my original inquiry about
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this whole issue after i read it in the newspaper and heard from constituents that i represent. and that was way back on september 19, about five or six days after the lane closures were reversed. and i sent a letter to a port authority commissioner pat schubert and i copied the governor and david samson on that letter. i believe i expressed in that letter that this was a little bit more than a traffic jam, and that i was at a loss for words as to how to explain what took place here with no notification to local officials, et cetera. so i'm assuming that when the governor's office gets a copy of a letter on state senate stationary, signed by the majority leader of the state senate, somebody might have called it to his attention. but okay, i'll accept maybe he didn't see it.
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maybe nobody did bring it to him. so let's fast forward to october 1. when the executive director of the port authority patrick foye had reversed the lane closures, and an e-mail he wrote was leaked to the press in which he stated that this was done against every kind of ruling regulation in the port authority. he had reversed it. it put people in jeopardy and compromised safety and, in fact, he said in that e-mail laws might have been broken. both federal and state laws. well, let's say that the governor only got conscious recognition of what went on there on october 1. two months later at the beginning of december, he was having a press conference. that was the press conference where he kind of made fun, oh, sure, i was out there rearranging the cones and he
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kind of made funover i of it. he said i am truly sauced, i remember because it was such a peculiar choice of words. i am truly sauced at the fact that ft. lee has somehow private access roads to the george washington bridge. that's more than two months after patrick foye's e-mail was released. i had told the port authority on a couple of different occasions, there are no private roads from ft. lee over the george washington bridge. they don't exist. if, in fact, the governor really thought there was a traffic study, which to this day has not been produced, two months later when he read about patrick foye's e-mail, which said that laws might have been broken, do you think he might have said let me see the traffic stutd di? or gee, patrick foye, or bill baroni or david wildstein, could
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you come to my office and tell me what went on here? i understand according to this e-mail that thousands of people might have been put into jeopardy. so there's something wrong with this whole time line. i appeared before four months of port authority meetings. and i'll tell you what else is wrong, and that i hope we can in this committee get to the bottom of, where were those port authority commissioners? i appeared before them in october, in november, in december. i stood up and spoke at each of those meetings. i told them if they were under any impression that there were private roads there, that's completely erroneous. to this day, i have not heard one of their voices. these are people who are charged with overseeing the expenditure of literally billions of dollars
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in this region. not one voice to say you know what, senator, we should get to the bottom of this. you know what, i am going to call in the people involved. absolutely nothing right up until if you had, which is, what, february 4? we're five months into this iss issue. not one port authority commissioner has spoken publicly about anything. >> you know, the governor said something extraordinary last night. i will play what he said last night about the traffic study. and it would have been -- it would have been one thing to hear him say this kind of thing a few months ago. it is astounding to hear him say this just last night where he's saying i still don't know if there was a traffic study. let's listen to this. >> i still don't know whether there was a traffic study that morphed into -- >> ewe still don't know at this point whether there's a traffic study? >> what i'm say, eric, was this a traffic study that morphed
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into political shenanigans? or did it start as political shenanigans that became a traffic study. >> joy reid, he's the governor of the state. if there's a traffic study, wouldn't it be on his desk? all two pages of it or 25 pages of it? wouldn't it be right there in his hands? >> well, the best part of that quote, political shenanigans that morph into a traffic study. that doesn't even make sense. that's exactly right. especially as the state senator laid out. you're saying you know what, it could have been a traffic study. you mean to tell me that a traffic jam in september produces questions at a press conference in december, that doesn't pique your interest? you think it's a traffic study, you don't ask for the traffic study? four days after governor chris christie jokes about those lane closures and says he was moving the cones, four days from then, david wildstein, his appointee
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in that special position resigns. you don't ask him why did you resign in if he says traffic study, you don't say show me the traffic study. seven days after david wildstein resign, bill baroni resigns. you still don't ask for the traffic study? at this point, i know there's no traffic study and i'm not the governor of new jersey. i don't understand how chris christie's defense is to still pretend like there's a possibility that a nonexist tent traffic study exists. we're way past traffic study. the governor has got to start explaining how it is that he was either completely out to lunch on the issues taking place for his own citizens and allowing his staff to do whatever and morph traffic studies into political shenanigans and vice versa. what was he doing during all this time? he's either not completely really in charge, which means his presidential ambitions don't make sense. or he knew about it before and is now trying to back fill and cover that up. either way, it's a huge problem. >> new jersey state senator
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loretta weinberg and msnbc's joy reid, thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you. coming up, chris christie's former enemies are now inviting him to their big event. and some of these former supporters are losing confidence. and bill nye the science guy will join me for a triumphant celebration of his victory tonight in a debate on evolution and creationism. i watched that debate. it was absolutely extraordinary. bill was amazing. and in "the rewrite" it's been a good week for bad socialism. first, the sports socialism extravaganza of the super bowl. and today, an overwhelming majority in the senate voted for moringe ing agriculture sociali. also, the affordable care act took a beating today in the news media because a lot of people couldn't understand the big words in the cbo report. ezra klein understands them and he'll be here to explain what
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>> what might happen if some day we a first gentleman instead of a first lady? >> i don't think we can get around it. maybe when we finally have a first gentleman. and maybe we should be that way asht t about the first gentleman also and critique the way they look all the time. their choice of tie. or their hair style or whatever. >> what's your advice -- >> or maybe their weight. >> up next, more on the chris christie investigation and then bill nye the science guy. i can't wait. in the nation, we reward safe driving. add vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance and get $100 off your deductible for every year
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>> i'm struck by how much christie was the donor class. they're beginning to write him off. >> and chris christie is having real problems in iowa. today in iowa, the des moines register ran an article titled to iowa recuters sour on christie. i don't think anything that's come out of bridgegate so far has changed my opinion of him one iota said cam sutton, a retired insurance executive who was one of a handful of rich iowans who flew to new jersey on a private jet in june 2011 to recruit christie to run for president then. their trip was widely interpreted by national
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political watchers as gop discontent in the first in the nation voting state with mitt romney and, of course, the rest of the presidential contenders at that time. but knowing now what has transpired? i probably wouldn't make the trip today. i think i'm disappointed in some of the things he's come out as. he's not really a conservative. just last night, governor chris christie was still trying to sell the idea that he is the republican who can pass his agenda in a democratic state, even while democrats are investigating his administration over the george washington bridge scandal. >> you are still in the midst of at the very least a big distraction. >> right. >> at the very most, something that may be more serious. are you able to have the kind of dialogue that you need to have with the senate president? with the assembly speaker? >> yeah. we had it today. we had it today.
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we met for an hour and a half today. and they and i understand that our job is to run the state of new jersey. in the midst of all this, eric, we had a state of the state address, we had the inaugural, we rolled out the next $1.4 billion proposal on sandy aid. all the stuff we're going to be talking about this week. and we're going to just do our job. and i met with the leadership of the legislature today to lay out an agenda that i have and to listen to an agenda that they have. that's what we would normally do at this time of the year anyway under any other circumstances. so no, no one is going to stop me from doing my job. >> joining me now, jonathan, i think there's many signs that the christie kingdom is crumbling. chief among them that absolutely insane thing that they sent out over the weekend about david wild wild
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wildstein about how he was in trouble in one class in high school. that says christie has really bad people on his team working for him. a document like that never should have gone out. >> it is a bit of a panic move, isn't it? his story isn't straight. he's changing details. he's changing emphasis. he's changing dates. so just keeping this thing together seems like a real challenge for him. >> as soon as david wildstein's lawyer comes out with the thing on friday that seems to say -- it was very carefully worded, but he seems to be saying, at least, that christie knew about this lane closure situation closing while it was going on. christie then goes on the radio last night and creates this big vague fog of exactly when he knew about this. and that used to be really definite. he knew about it only when it landed in "the wall street journal." >> how could he not have noenl about it, right? he met with wildstein during the closures. they were photographed together. if you're wildstein, you ordered
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this, you're with the boss, you almost certainly know -- >> you're very proud of yourself. >> hey, listen to this great thing i did on your behalf or you already know that he told you to do it. you're not going to sit there having been ordered by somebody else, not sure if the boss is okay with this gigantic -- well, i don't want to use the bad word, but operation, to, you know, to do bad things to your political enemies. >> guys like wildstein in politics, whenever they have the moment with the big boss, they always take credit for what they've done. they need that to keep their political -- >> he's okay with it. >> what i'm watching now is just how badly team christie is handling this situation. and that press release, that -- well, it wasn't a press release, a message to their supporters, here are our talking points, here's the way to fight this. there wasn't a single thing on their plan to fight this that was smart, that made sense. you know, where you go okay,
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this is actually going to help. not one thing. so christie has a staff that at this moment cannot produce one helpful idea. that means he can't possibly be going anywhere politically. >> and i don't see how he comes out of this well. what's the best case scenario? i think the best case scenario with ecan think of is there's mo smoking gun. but even in the absence of a smoking gun, you're talking about a long, drawn out process of hearings and he'll never be able to prove that he didn't do it. at best for him, it will just be ambiguo ambiguous. >> and the suspicion of what he did is actually the tea party's worst nightmare. this guy in the "des moines register" a supporter of his, saying that he thinks it was an abuse of power, whether christie knew about it or not. he says it's hard for him to believe that christie didn't know about all that. and that he disapproves of the actual conduct. he doesn't care whether christie is going to be able to pave over this in some way in a public relations way. he is off of christie because of
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what he knows already. >> one of the ironies here is that this is kind of machine style abusive, slightly corrupt government. now, i think in and a lot of people think that you could be this kind of machine style politician and still be okay, still bring home the bacon and have a decent life for most people you represent, even if you're greasing the squats here and there. i think that's the best defense of how he's governed in new jersey. he has been bipartisan here and there. and maybe he's a little corrupt and dirty, but overall, he hasn't been too bad. but the people that aren't going to go for that argument are the tea partier, the iowa republicans and the conservatives in the party. >> right. and his defense is look, these people i appointed were absolutely horrible. >> and have been their whole lives. >> but now let me appoint them as attorney general and irs commissioner? thank you very much for joining me tonight. coming up, the debate over evolution and creationism. the debate between bill nye the science guy and the guy who
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founded the creation museum. guess who won? the winner, bill nye joins me next. if yand you're talking toevere rheuyour rheumatologistike me, about trying or adding a biologic. this is humira, adalimumab. this is humira working to help relieve my pain. this is humira helping me through the twists and turns. this is humira helping to protect my joints from further damage. doctors have been prescribing humira for over ten years.
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>> mr. hamm and his followers have this remarkable review of a worldwide flood that somehow influenced everything that we observe in nature. a 500-foot wooden boat, eight zoo keepers for 14,000 individual animals. every land plant in the world
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under water for a full year. i ask us all, is that really reasonable? >> joining me now. the reasonable bill nye the science guy. bill, i watched the debate. i was riveted. you were fantastic. i asked people on twitter what they want me to ask you and one of the most common questions i got was, ask bill how he was able to maintain his composure and poise under that kind of, well, ignorance, i guess, is what most people on twitter were calling it. >> well, what did i tell you lawrence, thank you, first of a all. i take this business very seriously. i say this all the time. if we raise a generation of students who does not know and appreciate the process of science, let alone the facts of science, we're headed for trouble. and i say this first of all as a citizen of the world and as a citizen of the the united
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states. we want the united states to continue to innovate, continue to have new ideas, produce new products that people want, for the betterment really of all human kind. so i have respect, of course, for mr. hamm and his strongly held belief, but it's a serious business, and i mention this especially to your audience who are voters and taxpayers. and thank you again for your kind words. >> you handled yourself with seriousness and grace. there was nothing taunting in the way you did it. it was just a wonderful thing to watch. one of the things i said on twitter is bill is teaching us more than just science. he's teaching us how to have civil and decent disagreements and talk them out. aechb i want to show the audience who didn't get a chance to see it just what you were up against. here is creationist ken ham and
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what he believes about dating methods.here is creationist ken what he believes about dating methods.against. here is creationist ken ham and what he believes about dating methods. >> there's hundreds of dating methods out there, hundreds of them that contradict billions of years. and point is, all such dating methods are fallible. and i claim there's only one infallible dating method. it's a witness who was there who knows everything who told us. and that's from the word of god. >> bill, it was -- there you were, in the debate about science. and it kept coming back to the word of god as written in the old testament. >> well, not always. sometimes the new testament came in. >> well, yeah. >> i'm serious. i just want to remind everybody if you're interested, the topic under debate does ken ham's creation model work? is it viable.
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that was the adjective that he chose. and i argued, i think, strongly, that it's not. that it's not subject to analysis. and the big problem i have, if i may, intellectually or spiritually is that it has no ability to predict anything. his view of nature does not allow him to make predictions about the future, which is really the essence of the scientific method, where you have -- you observe something, you design -- you have a hypothesis about why it takes place, you design an experiment to test it and then you compare the results to what happened. and he doesn't have that in any of his assertions. and in my view, and i'll let the viewers -- your viewers decide if that's true. by the way, everybody just, if i may, you can watch it for free on my website. your viewers can decide if he ever got around to answering that, to saying that he does
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have something that he can predict and he could show the future. and there were some specific things that he just didn't -- he didn't choose to address. >> bill, i thought, you know, for someone -- i'm not really scientifically literate at all, as i think you know. and i thought his first 30 minutes, you were each given 30 minutes. his first 30 minutes, i thought he made a lot of what sounded like really good points. i could see how people could be drawn into that kind of thinking. it was one of those situations where, okay, then the other guys gets up and in two minutes you forget everything that you just heard in the previous 30 minutes, because you found just the clearest and quickest ways to get in there and dismantle everything that we had just heard. and the way you kind of gracefully kept keeping it back to simple scientific propositions. and always addressing it to the importance of what all this really does mean for how we teach science in schools.
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that seems to be what is most at stake for you in this. >> absolutely. lawrence, you were watching and listening. thank you. >> it was great. >> let me point out that you probably know more science than you realize. and the things i drew attention to, the fossil record, relatively straightforward calculations about how long things would have had to exist, how many species would have come into being, and the extraordinary nature of this ship that was supposed pto be built by inexperienced people better than any ship that was ever built. once the evidence is gathered, you can see them in a few sentences or paragraphs, but they're really tribute to our ancestors who have been so diligent to discover aspects of nature, naturals laws and where you and i fit in. and it's so important for me as
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a guy who grew up in the united states that we have a future of innovation, of scientists and engineers that can help, dare i say it, change the world. and if i may, i want to thank my friends at the national center for science education, the planetary society, the union of concerned scientist, my academic colleagues who helped me prepare this material. >> oh, you had help. okay, that explains it. during the debate, i tweeted, does bill nye know everything? because it sure sounds like you do. >> well, these are classic questions. and i graduate level, get your ph.d. science. this is largely elementary school science. these are not extraordinary claims -- rather, these are not extraordinary propositions. these are things that i want every elementary school graduate in the united states, and indeed in the world to be familiar with, to understand. so that he and she can move us
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forward. thanks very much. >> it was great to watch. you can watch the debate by going to our website, lastword.msnbc.com. or bill's website. you must watch this. and bill again, i just applaud the way you handled it, especially in the way i think you very effectively communicated with people who do not agree with you. bill, thank you very much. for joining us tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >> coming up, as viewers of this program know, there's good socialism and very bad socialism. and this was a week of bad socialism from the super bowl to the farm bill. that's next in "the rewrite." when does your work end?
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[ male announcer ] ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. yeah? then how'd i get this... [ voice of dennis ] ...safe driving bonus check? every six months without an accident, allstate sends a check. silence. are you in good hands? >> any week that begins with the spoel is a good week for sports socialism. sports spoeshlism is far the most popular unifying socialism
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in america. and it's our very worst socialism. the biggest revellers and beneficiaries of sports socialism have no idea that it is socialism because, you know, they couldn't study every word in those economics textbook whence they were studying their playbooks in college. john elway, who has been financially supported by the safety net of sports spoeshlism his entire working life said this on fox news on supersunday when explaining why he's a republican. a. >> i don't believe in safety nets. >> of course, no one employed by fox news actually knows what socialism is, so john elway never got a follow-up question about living a life in the tax provided safety net that protects sports from the harsh realities of a capitalist economy. john elway's work place, the
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professional football stadiums in america have almost all been paid for with taxpayer money. taxpayer dollars are taken directly from school seecher incomes and transferred to the incomes of people like this -- richie incognito is played $4 million a year to play football and to play ugly games in the locker room. and his salary is supported byp socialistic transfer from taxpayers who all professional football players. every professional football player plays some or most. and in some cases all of their games in taxpayer-financed stadiums. and the national football league has secured itself an exemption from federal income taxes. that's right. the nfl operates tax free because, you know, it's a
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carety. no one is in it for the money. and because the billionaire team owners don't have to pay real money for their stadiums and don't have the irs looking over their books, they have much more money left over to pay their players. in a harsh capitalistic system with no taxpayer support, tom brady's salary would go from his taxpayer subsidized $31 million a year to what? maybe $20 million? $15 million? i don't know. he would still be very, very rich but not as rich. and a lot of schoolteachers and police officers and firefighters in america would be a little bit richer. the economic lie that professional sports franchises economically benefit surrounding communities has been proven false time and time again by the serious economists who have studied it. and still republican and
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democratic politicians compete to come up with more lavish giveaways to professional sports teams. the this special treatment of the millionaires and billionaires of professional sports is a moral blight on american politics and government. that the super bowl would come on the same week that the senate would pass its most popular bad socialism bill is just a happy coincidence for the bipartisan lovers of bad socialism. the farm bill is being hailed by some as a triumphable. today, 68 senators photovoeted for agriculture socialism, the noisiest public debate about the farm bill actually centered on the good socialism in the bill. which is the food stamp program. the farm bill has always this dense combination of one of america's best socialistic ideas, food stamps, with one of america's most wasteful
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socialistic ideas, agricultural subsidies. the only question from the start was how much would the good socialism be cut? how much would food stamps be cut. that question was important enough to drown out any other question about the farm bill, which is pure agricultural socialism. some of the most conservative members of the government including mitch mcconnell voted for government subsidized insurance. every one of those republicans who voted for government subsidized insurance today has railed against government subsidized insurance. in another marketplace. they proved to do they were not opposed to government subsidized insurance in principle. they are simply opposed to government subsidized health inshuns. and they are completely in favor of government subsidized insurance, giant agribusiness, and the giant insurance they are in favor of is insurance against
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the cruelties of capitalism. they believe that farmers should have insurance against economic reality. and they don't believe anyone else in our economy should. the secretary of canning culture today said it would allow agribusiness to invest confidently in the future. that sounds nice, doesn't it? but why should anyone have a government guarantee that they can invest confidently. can you invest confidently? why should everyone else's investment be subject to risk but not farmers? because their profits are weather dependent? and that's just too much uncertainty to allow? then what about ski area operators? oh, oh. so it's because farmers provide food? then why aren't commercial fishermen guaranteed by the government that they can invest confidently in the future? the government provides fishermen no such guarantee. and they go bankrupt all the time. president obama echoed this idea
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today. saying this bill would provide, quote, certainty, his word, certainty, for farmers and ranchers. why only farmers and ranchers? and again, why should any business be provided certainty in its operations and profits by the government? that is bad socialism. and like sports socialism, agriculture socialism is popular and unifying, especially in washington. it is the only kind of socialism that could unite barbara boxer, who along with dianne feinstein represents more farmers and more food stamp recipient thans anyone else in the senate with mitch mcconnell. it is the only kind of socialism that could unite liberal socialist bernie sanders with republican agricultural socialist david have iter. vitter. it's the only socialism that could win a bipartisan vote from 2/3 of the senate.
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but bipartisanship in and of itself has never been a good thing. only bipartisanship used to do good things is a good thing. and very expensive bad socialism is not a good thing. honestly? my kids were always on my laptop. i didn't think i could buy them their own, let alone for under $300. but this asus with windows is lightweight and has everything they need -- not like chromebooks that can't install office or have to be connected to the internet to get much done. with this they can do homework, chat, play games -- on their own laptop, and their own time. so no more fighting... at least not over my laptop. ♪ honestly, i wanna see you be brave ♪
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one of the biggest controversies surrounding the game is the russian government's intolerance of homosexuality. last month, the mayor of sochi even said there were no gay people in his town. now, i personally, i find it odd that there's so much homophobia there, especially when you learn the names that russians have for the olympic events. for example, in russia, ski jumping is known as spreading your legs and bending forward for glory.
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hockey, roughly translates to guys grabbing your sticks and pucking for 20-some-odd minutes without a time-out. the term for the women's slalom is cruising mound and avoiding the polles. and finally, men's figure skating is known as men's figure skating. [ applause ] that's right, no hidden fees. it's just that i'm worried about, you know, "hidden things." ok, why's that? well uhhh... surprise!!! um... well, it's true. at ally there are no hidden fees. not one. that's nice. no hidden fees, no worries. ally bank. your money needs an ally. i tr ied r money needs an ally. depend last weekend. it really made the difference between a morning around the house and getting a little exercise.
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>> good afternoon, everyone. the cbo report is certainly not pretty. if you're interested in creating jobs in america. as we all know, they estimate up to 2 million fewer jobs will be created as a result of obamacare. >> that statement you just heard from mitch mcconnell is, how to put it, not true. the congressional budget office did release a new report today gave an economic outlook and yes, it gave a section on the aforable care act and included the number 2 million. but cbo did not say 2 million fewer jobs will be created as a result of obamacare. cbo said this -- projects a decline in the number of full-time equivalent workers of about 2 million in 2017. the estimated reduction stem
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almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply, rather than from a net drop in business demand for labor. so it will appear almost entirely as a reduction in labor force participation rather than as an increase in unemployment, that is more workers seeking but not finding jobs. joining me now is ezra klein, msnbc policy analyst who is building a new news site at voxmedia. there was a bit of hysteria. oh, my god, affordable care act kills jobs. and it's just -- it's those big words in the cbo report. you know, that's just not fair for politicians, giving them big words to deal with. >> this is, i think, one of the truly interesting findings about the affordable care act. what cbo is saying here is that the affordable care act is going
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to make it such that a lot of people right now who are working very, very long hours or a job they don't want, because it is the only way they or their family can get healthcare will be able to cut back those hours or they'll be able to not take that job. you imagine where a man would like to be a state at home father but h ecan't because the job gives him health care. they have enough money but they need the health care. he can cut back to part time and be a stay at home dad. the argument being here is that we should force people to keep working longer hours through a kind of deprivation, right? it would be similar if we say, we're going to implement a policy, the implication being we're going to implement a policy, we take $10,000 out of the bank account of every american. now they can't feed their families anymore, they work longer hours. if you think that could be great for the country, then you would be very worried about this
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report for healthcare. >> that actually is the republican policy as expressed in repeal the affordable care act. >> and also --ite would in effect being that policy. >> and also end unemployment benefits, right? >> the white house brought out jason furman, and he talked about how this could involve people carrying two jobs in order to -- well, let's just -- we'll have him explain it. >> just a small picky thing. it doesn't say losing jobs. it says fte's. so to some degree, this might be somebody who used to work 60 because they needed health insurance and that was the only job that offered it, and now they can get a different job at 35 hours that doesn't offer health insurance, but they're getting it through this. maybe a spouse who wanted to be part time, so they could spend more time with their family. now is able to do that. is somebody else who wanted to start a business and become an entrepreneur and was terrified
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of doing it because they would lose their health insurance is now able to do that, too. and switch and take a chance on creating jobs and growing the overall economy. >> i know so many examples, personally, that fit into that. holding on to this job just for the health insurance. >> this is a huge issue. and it's a huge reason that it is hard to start a business often times in america. if your kid needs braces and you're in a corporate job and sufficient of a dental, you can't go out on the individual market and hope your family is going to be fine. i do want to back up quickly and say one broad thing. if you're a politician who has had the opportunity in recent years to vote for bill after bill after bill, the conscious office says it would create jobs by investing in infrastructure, by cutting taxes for businesses that hire new workerers or that hire unemployed worker, by giving money to state and local governments who have cut massive number of jobs and you have said no to every single bill but your job strategy is repeat the
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healthcare bill for people who already have jobs and would like to work fewer hours, that is a good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. well, chris christie was in front of the press today, but he was not in the mood to answer

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